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wants to take the debt ceiling issue out of discussions about the fiscal cliff. take a listen. >> if congress in any way suggests they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation, i will not play that game. >> congressman, the last time republicans used the debt ceiling for political purposes, the full faith and credit of this nation was downgraded. are they really happy, really happy, in the face of what you've just heard the president say, are they happy to do if again? >> yeah, they have acted irresponsibly. many house republicans have acted like children. they have behaved like children. when children behave containing yously, you take the dangerous toy as way from them. they want to continue on a three-month basis. they have tried to schett down the federal government on a three-month timetable because they don't fundamentally believe the government should help grow the middle class or help small businesses retire people, retain employees, or helping veterans. so we don't think it's a g
fight over the debt ceiling as well. the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling, are they connected? >> the white house wants them to be connected. they actually think if neck get a deal decoupling the bush tax cuts, having entitlement reform in dealing with the debt ceiling that is getting a raise and not having to worry about it for another couple of years, that's what they want. house republicans have indicated that, look, they actually might want it to kick the can down the road, make a deal on taxes but kick it down the road where they have more leverage. president obama was asked about that earlier this week and said he doesn't want to play the debt ceiling game anymore. that's where republicans have more leverage than then do on other matters. >> all right. senior political editor mark murray, have a great weekend, sir. >> i want to bring in congressman peter welch from vermont. good to see you again. talked to you last weekend on msnbc. at that point you told me that you thought there was a 50/50 shot we'd go off the so-called fiscal cliff. today speaker boehner said talks w
for digging into this stuff. we've got the debate about the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling and we're talking in the trillions. before you can even get to the trillions, if you can't stop stuff like this, does the american public ever believe that washington is going to get its act together if you can't stop this 100,000 here, million there, all, of course, adds up to billions. if we can't stop the zombies, taxpayers paying for the zombies, how can we ever tackle medicare and social security? [laughter] megyn: that's the thing that makes people upset, julie. all right, if you're going to increase my taxes to help pay down the debt, help people in need, that's one thing, but if i'm going to be paying for zombies or for santa to ride the $250,000 sleigh, i object. >> i'm a little embarrassed. can you imagine being an employee and having to pretended to be a zombie? >> those were actors. >> i don't know about that. [laughter] i think they may have been dhs employees dressed up. charles is right, thanksgiving a little ri -- this is a little ridiculous. i understand what they're trying
us from going off the fiscal cliff. they said by the way we need to raise the debt limit and this new proposal of eliminating congress from the process of raising the debt limit. >> senator mcconnell has offered to have an up or down vote on this and democrats haven't taken him up on it. all of the spending reductions that simon cited in the 1990s were tied to the debt limit increase. it gives republicans leverage. president obama has the leverage in the fiscal cliff fight. he's willing to let the tax go up on the middle class. on the debt increase he doesn't have the same leverage. bob woodward pointed out that tim geithner said to president obama if the republicans stick to their guns on the debt limit bill you cannot reto it. the consequences will be so clam to us that you cannot veto it. so obama would have capitulated. megyn: that's what simon is saying now. that we shouldn't put the country in that position. >> the only way we'll get action on this debt. we keep spending and spending and raising our debt by $6 trillion every obama term. that's what catastrophic. the republicans
or will shift from the fiscal cliff to the debt limit. it's not at all clear that the republicans will agree to including a debt limit increase in that kind of package. if they don't, we may get past december 31st only to find ourselves with a big problem in february or march. >> the obama administration, the white house has been very clear, they will not sign anything, even to get past december 31st. that doesn't include a debt ceiling of some sort. so do you think they can hold firm on that if republicans offer them a package that doesn't include the debt ceiling? >> this is where i think the tension is now arising, which is even if you have some agreement over the tax rates which will jam the republicans a bit, can you jam them on the debt limit also. i think the concern will be an administration overstepping or overreaching and trying to jam a debt limit increase, especially the kinds that are being discussed now. i'm all in favor of getting rid of the debt limit. it makes no sense from a technical perspective. from a policy perspective. but it's probably a bridge too far to attempt that
on the economy. white house wants at the very least a long-term extension of the debt ceiling in any fiscal cliff deal. the republicans now see the debt ceiling as their own leverage. they're demanding a steep price to include it. who anyways if obama will ultimately go along with something like this. but it is a talk that there is still one crucial way he's at the mercy of republicans. it leaves him with a tough choice. to pay their price in entitlements or play debt ceiling chicken with them again. okay. does it for "the cycle" today.
a plan not just to avert the fiscal cliff, but importantly to really tackle the deficit and debt problems in this country. i am concerned that deal won't be big enough. is it going to be small or medium or big. we need a plan big enough to fix the deficit problems and make sure the debt is no longer growing faster than the economy. we're not going to be able to balance the budget in the near future because the fiscal hole is so big. you want to make sure the debt is not growing faster than the economy. that's going to take $4 trillion in savings. you need all parts on the table and constructed in a thoughtful way so that revenues are raised in ways that are good for the economy as possible, and that when we're looking at the spending in the budget, we reform our entitlement programs and reduce spending in way that's thoughtful and good for the economy. it's going to take a lot to get there, but i actually think most of the policy ideas are well known and we're now in this political negotiation where i think there's a lot of support for having them, if they're going to go through all this,
of a p perpetual fiscal cliff and using the debt ceiling to force concessions. they, you know, used cliche they kicked the can down the road to the super committee and that blew up and now this and talk of a two-prong solution and then dealing with entitlements next year. it does seem like we just keep making, you know, small incremental decisions and then putting off somethingç bigger r six months, a year, 18 months. when will the insanity stop on this? >> yeah. i mean, the thing is -- >> 300 calories! >> stop the insanity! >> that was -- that was susan powter. i knew we talked about it before the show and didn't know we would play it. when will we listen and stop the insanity? feel free to answer. >> yeah. look. you know, it's a real dynamic in place where it takes the horrible things to happen, a risk of a recession, of a debt ceiling, you know, defaulting on u.s. debt, it takes the really dramatic things to force action but it gets back to the issue of where are the power levers and the forcing mechanisms to make the government deal with the deficit? that's not coming from the
of coffee this morning. starbucks ceo has sobering advice to offer on the looming fiscal cliff, that the consequences will be far worse than last year's debt ceiling fight when the u.s. credit rating was downgraded for the first time ever. his message to lawmakers, now is not the time to play politics. it's about doing right by the american people. >> i think if people would get in the room and leave their ego behind, and not be so skewed towards the party but be so sensitive to the lens of the american people, we will have an agreement. >> poppy harlow is joining us with more. we've been talking about how this will affect us. schultz says this goes way beyond our boarders. >> it's global. something that stuck with me talking to him about this, the people who need a deal most will be hurt the most. here's why. >> this single issue has a seismic affect on the rest of the world, that we have never been as connected and the domino effect of a bad outcome here will have significant negative consequences, domestically and around the world, not the least of which will be the level --
with our debt bomb. giev tot face the fiscal cliff that's coming in a couple of weeks. >> so you know what both sides are saying. the president is saying there's no way to make the math work without raising the rates for the top income earners and that the republicans should give in on this. >> yeah, yeah. >> do you think he's right? >> well, i understand that position. that was the position he took during the campaign. but what has to happen in my view, you've got to have everything on the table. yo view to have revenue increases. now, how you get those revenue increases was an item of discussion during the campaign. it are be an item of discussion during the negotiation. i for one think you could get there in way that would promote economic growth by eliminating -- by bronding the tax base, by eliminating loopholes and deductions. the truth of the matter, fareed, is we're not undertaxed as americans. we overspend. i think everybody would agree we overspend. that's why we have this debt to gdp over 100%. fars as the eye can see, absence poultcy changes. whatever you do, you first have to
and decided to roll a debt ceiling extension in to the fiscal cliff deal whatever they end up striking here and seems to me acknowledging republicans have leverage with cpi and talking about raising the medicare age. my question to you as a progressive is, republicans want something big. is there any big concessions you can see acceptable? >> new york city i really can't. and the kind of things we are talking about, even if they're not -- may not be acceptable to me ever but talking about a version of the changed cpi, the president already said social security is off the table because it is not driving the deficit. that's kind of weird. changes to medicare eligibility again or changes to medicare payments or whatever, it's really complicated to negotiate but i have to say i agree with you, steve. i'm -- i wish that the president hadn't taken the 14th amendment off the table because we're all saying, well, nothing should be off the table. why is that off the table and even if it's tough thing to pull off in the long run? i think that this mania for a fiscal cliff deal is disturbing but i thi
. and number two, do you believe we're going over the fiscal cliff? what are the implications for our children if we don't get our arms around the zmet redebt? real quick two questions. >> hello? >> maya? maya, are you with me? >> hey, folks. >> unbelievable. two important questions for maya. we're going to get those answers from maya. i really want to get out there what it means for our children because getting our arms around the debt is quite important and whether or not we need to cut medicare. we'll get her answers when we come back. meantime, let's slip in a short break. then we have ranking republican on the senate banking committee, richard shelby in the shohouse. she's goi he's going to be up next on his reaction from the geithner interview. stay with us. busy hour. well, if it isn't mr. margin. mr. margin? don't be modest, bob. you found a better way to pack a bowling ball. that was ups. and who called ups? you did, bob. i just asked a question. it takes a long time to pack a bowling ball. the last guy pitched more ball packers. but you... you consulted ups. you found a better way. t
fiscal cliff. he says consequences will be far worse than last year's debt ceiling fight, when the u.s. credit rating was downgraded for the first time ever. if a deal is not reached, he told our poppy harlow, the ripple effect will be felt worldwide. >> this single issue has a seismic effect on the rest of the world, that we have never been as connected and the domino effect of a bad outcome here will have significant negative consequences, domestically and around the world. >>> take a minute to come over to your tv, if you can. penn state has another pr problem on its hands this morning. the university's kai omega sorority is being investigated for stereotyping latinos after a picture showed up on the site tumblr. the photo showed sorority members wearing fake mustaches and dressed in somberos while holding signs that say, "i don't cut grass, i smoke it." the president of the chapter has apologized. is that enough, soledad? >> ladies, as your multi-ethnic friend, let me help you. help me help you. no dressing up as any stereotypical figures. just stop. call a friend. get advice. do
prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> oh, absolutely. >> alan simpson co-chair of the president's debt commission, says both sides are making a high stakes gamble. >> when you have leaders of parties and people of the administration saying, i think it will be to the advantage of the democrats to go off the cliff, i think it will be advantage to the republicans to go off the cliff, or the president to go off the cliff, that's like betting your country. there's stupidity involved in that. >>> syria on the bring. secretary of state hillary clinton holds emergency talks with russia as u.s. officials confirm reports that the syrian military is prepared to launch chemical weapons against its own people. >> we've made it very clear what our position is with respect to chemical weapons and i think we will discuss that and many other aspects. >> the whole world is watching. the whole world is watching very closely. and the president of the united states has made very clear that there will be consequences. >> plus, sharp criticism from afghan president karzai. the exclusive nbc interview. why he
of waste that we need to focus in on. the president is trying to solve the fiscal cliff, we are trying to solve the debt and the deficit. jenna: you have a fresh look at things. what do you think the leadership that exists now that is negotiating this that may be more entrenched in politics than you have been, what kind of advice would you give them. >> we are able to say to leadership and the leadership is able to listen from their own constituents instead, i'm from central oklahoma. the key thing that comes up over and over again is we have to deal with the debt and deficit. we hear the noise of that maybe closer to the ground and that is a good thing to be able to share. when you've got a trillion dollars of over spending we've got to deal with a trillion dollars of over spending. jenna: you came in fresh in 2010, you signed up for a second turn at this. >> there are a few things left to lee solve, let's get on with them. jen congratulations on a second term. thanks for coming into the studio. jon: a murder in broad daylight on a busy street in manhatten. new york police are releasi
revenue, this fiscal cliff issue much larger. talks about the debt ceiling and what that means for next year. treasury saying that sometime early next year they will run out of those extraordinary measures and the u.s. will have to raise the debt ceiling or default. back to you. ashley: very good point. rich edson in d.c. thanks very much. tracy: our next guest says, forget taxes. washington needs to focus on cutting entitlement spending if we want to prevent a battle between old and young americans. diana further got roth, senior fellow at man hat taken institute and joins us now. diana, seems to me raising the retirement age is the simplest thing you could do yet we're not talking about that. >> well, we certainly should be because part of the deficit problem, a great part, is entitlements, social security and medicare, keep adding fiscal burdens as people's live expectancy increases and it's great that people are living longer but when social security was first thought of the life expectancy was only 67. now it is around 85. we need to raise retirement ages or somehow thinking about
into a devastating recession. i mean, david said it well in his piece this morning. if you think the fiscal cliff is a problem, this kind of hostage taking around the debt ceiling is multiples of that and the president is, i think, very correct to stand extremely firm and be extremely clear that he's not going to play that game. >> karen, the politics of this are frightening for the republicans. the latest polling does not support their stance. and given that they spent four years obstructing this president and failed, why do it again from the outset of his second term? >> well, you know, there's good news for the republicans, martin. karl rove's group, crossroads gps is going to spend some money for some ads, and we know that's a successful strategy in convincing the american people. >> that's good news. >> i can't pass that chance up to do that. >> i understand. >> i think part of what's so important about the polling, we talked about this on monday and the quinnipiac polling you were showing, the republicans have had time to make their arguments and it's not working. more people are moving tow
. this is a product of what our negotiations were last year from the debt ceiling. how did we get to the fiscal cliff, it's not only the tax increase from the affordable care act that started january 1st, it happened in the last lame duck punted into this one and the last summer budget negotiation punted into this one. we'll get real cuts equal to what we're doing in debt ceiling increase and if we want to resolve that the best time is right now because we have another debt ceiling increase coming. >> you've told "the new york times" you think your party is boxed in. i want to read from "washington times" "republican leaders struggled tuesday to contain the backlash from conservatives of the gop's offer of $800 billion in tax increases to head off the fiscal cliff, a move that didn't impress the white house even as it spawned a rebellion on the right." so are republicans going to have to give on raising rates? >> no. we're not, because where the president is focused in on is the affordable care act taxes they increase january the 1st on people making $200,000 or more. the president wants a rate incre
should compromise and hear both sides. >> i think you should go off the fiscal cliff. americans are barreling down the road that's debt. there is a fork in the road. on the left are all our kids and our grand kids and the next generations. and on the right the road on the right is the fiscal cliff. really that the is choice if we don't do something about it we are going to go anyway. do you run over the kids with the car or do you take the other road which is not a good one but better than running over your kids fiscal cliff. it's a hard choice. >> but if we don't do it, if we don't go over the fiscal cliff the democrats will never cut a dime in spending. >> why would the democrats want change? if the bush tax cuts are going to expire they are saying this is great because this means the rich are going to pay more money, we are going to have more money to spend. they are already spending a the lo. they are saying why would we want change? this is great we have more money to spend. >> nancy pelosi saying why aren't we voting on middle class tax cuts? get to the other stuff. put th
over the fiscal cliff and then run into the debt limit in february. that would be a puriic victory. >> vus not goiit's just not goi happen. tell me, because you know these numbers better than anybody, other than people sitting in the white house that have looked at the very latest, but it seems like 37%. we're starting to hear that more, and both sides may coalesce around that eventually. let's say we change the rates to 35% and 37% and you eliminate deductions, not the home mortgage because we're not going to get that. we're probably not going to get charitable. can you say $1.2 trillion if that's where we compromise and new revenues. >> capital gains, dividends, estate. >> if you're more aggressive. >> about half theway. >> let's say you aggressively go on capital gains, dif evidends >> you start to get close. >> david ig nanatiuignatius, ar to have a deal? you know washington. >> my guess is we are going to have a deal just because the stars have now been in alignment. i've been struck by the way president obama has taken lead of his own party and himself been the negotiator, pu
. in july 2011 there was the debt ceiling debate and they set up this fiscal cliff for themselves because they knew that they only act in a crisis situation. so they set up this crisis and the question is whether they now have this cliff, are they going to actually move the cliff because they can't even act in a crisis. that is their own doing. i mean -- >> not much time left. >> gloria, thanks very much. >> yep. >> one of the biggest guessing games here in washington is who will replace treasury secretary timothy geithner. i'm going to ask robert ruben who should get the vital job. >>> also, we're going live to egypt. we're going to find out why massive protests have broken out again. you're looking at live pictures coming in from cairo. [ male announcer ] when was the last time something made your jaw drop? campbell's has 24 new soups that will make it drop over, and over again. ♪ from jammin' jerk chicken, to creamy gouda bisque. see what's new from campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. it's so great to see you. you, too! oh, cloudy glasses. you didn't have to come over! actuall
. that's complicating the fiscal cliff discussions. mitch mcconnell yesterday proposed a vote on a measure that would give the president the authority to increase the debt ceiling without congressional input. this is something that the white house has proposed as part of their fiscal cliff proposal. it's a nonstarter for republicans. but he wanted to put it on the floor to show that even democrats don't support giving the president that kind of authority. he did that and harry reid turned around and said, let's see if we can do it with a simple majority for 51 votes and democrats it appeared had made sure they had that and then mitch mcconnell in return ended up objecting to the very thing he propose eed. take a listen. >> now the republican leader objects his own idea. i guess we have a filibuster of his own bill. >> so this was some maneuvering that went on. mitch mcconnell won the day when he proposed a vote overall on the entire fiscal cliff proposal and harry reid objected to it. it's a little bit of a back and forth going on in the midst of these talks that are now reope
negotiations over the debt ceiling fell apart. to understand what's going on during the hopeless fiscal cliff negotiations rewind to 2011 when boehner and president obama came within inches of a grand bargain, a deal that would have forced both democrats and republicans to eat their vegetables. in its comprehensive analysis of what happens during the secret negotiations, matt bai wrote -- the deal unraveled in large part because speaker boehner could not get his unruly caucus to go along with raising new revenue. fast forward to this year and republicans now think that deal, the one they walked away from, sounds pretty good. they're using it as a basis for their current proposal. only problem. boehner had his chance. president obama now thinks he has the upper hand. according to the "washington post's" ezra klein, quote -- >> joining us now representative chris van hollen of maryland, ranking member of the house budget committee. great to have you on the program. >> great to be with you, alex. >> let's talk a little bit about 2011 versus 2012, which is to say, the republican party is a very d
is standing in the way now of a fiscal cliff solution. we're back in two. >>> it wasn't until the debt ceiling lauz but born with an . >> you know, i beg to differ, mr. president. to me, i understand the use of its is a weapon but to me the real problem isn't the debt ceiling. it's the debt. the debt is the problem. you know, to have an unlimited amount of money to call upon is too much power power for one person. it's always in our country been about checks and balances but i think this administration just wants more checks and no balancing of the checkbook. that isn't the kind of check and balance that i think the people that wrote the constitution had in mind. now, let's look at it a different way, when we think of, you know, some good entertainment, there's, you know, bob hope, the road to morocco, the road to singapore. i don't think that we want to have a movie someday called the road to the weimar republic because bob hope was in the old movies. there's no hope in that new movie and i think this issue really has to be discussed. now i understand there's issues about compromise and every
will buy it. >> it is for now. at least somebody is staying transparent. what the fiscal cliff come essentially if you don't know what is going to happen, it is pretty good to have the fed to say we will continue to inject liquidity into the market, we are not as concerned about the market and we will make certain economic growth continues right now. liz: when does it stop, eugene? it just seems like it'll be very hard to exudate ourselves from the pillow read the half-life is really running out, it is like a heroine addict, you're not you t getting the same path. >> i would agree with you, easy money is very attractive, but there is no one logic. some of the confusion, look at the companies accelerating their dividend payment, there's only one thing, corporation balance sheets are strong, they have the cash to support. that could have been used for investment and they still think once we could get some clarity around what the tax scenario is going to be, we get some clarity on what fiscal policy is going to be, corporations will begin to reinvest again. david: as you just said esse
characterized this fight over the fiscal cliff but alan simpson managed to do it with a video promoting had is campaign to fix the debt. >> stop instagramming your breakfast and tweeting your problems and getting on youtube so you can see gangnam style. ♪ and start using those precious social media skills to go out and sign people up on this baby, three people a week, let it grow, and don't forget take part or get taken apart. by these old ones will clean out the treasury before you get there. ♪ >> [ inaudible ]. >> the lasso again and then the horseback. horse horse. the cowboys ride. >> it made my day. i had to share it with you. chris cizilla an msnbc contributor and managing editor of post politics.com and susan page, washington bureau chief for "usa today." hello. alan simpson never fails. >> i was instagraming, andrea. i was busy instagraming. >> chris, maybe this do broke through. put him on the road, have him go door to door. >> my favorite part of the video which i have watched approximately 1,000 times is when he says at the end, so another lasso then. >> and he is a man who k
? the longer the white house slow walks this process, the closer our economy gets to the fiscal cliff. here's what we do know. we know that the president wants more stimulus spending and an increase in the debt limit without any cuts or reforms. that's not physicianing our problem. frankly, it's making it worse. on top of that, the president wants to raise tax rates on many small business owners. now, even if we did exactly what the president wants, we would see red ink for as far as the eye can see. that's not fixing our problem either. it's making it worse, and it's hurting our economy. i think the members know i'm an optimist. i'm hopeful we can reach an agreement. this is a serious issue and there's a lot at stake. the american people sent us here to work together towards the best possible solution, and that means cutting spending. now, if the president doesn't agree with our approach, he has an obligation to put forward a plan that can pass both chambers of the congress because right now the american people have to be scratching their heads and wondering when is the president going to
than a year. fiscal cliff negotiations, they're really focused on fixing the debt. how can you fix the debt if you can't fix the economy? if you can't fix the jobs situation? >> oh, boy, this is the magic question this is why people like paulfreaking out and going, wait a minute, we go over the fiscal cliff, it is austerity, it is bad for job creation and that could be a problem. the bigger issue i think in the long-term unemployment problem is we never really dealt with it from the beginning of the jobs crisis. so 12 million people out of work, 40% of them, more than six months, that's insane. but we have not had a real program to get those long-term unemployed back to work. and, you know, frankly, i don't see anything happening in the future. as we look at that fiscal cliff, what does that really do? it says government is going to spend less money, less money means less job training, less ways to get the unemployed back to work. that really says that we're probably going to be stuck with an unemployment problem for a long time. >> so avoiding a fiscal cliff doesn't necessarily me
's something that won't happen. short term spending cuts should be part of any fiscal cliff deal. the big news this morning is we're not going over the cliff. they have a bad hand. they're going to end up passing this middle class tax thing if that's the only thing they do. and live to fight another day. you can see the momentum building. not official but you see it. the difficulty for boehner still is passing the extension may be best of the options it is an option that a chunk of his party has said he would reject. the fiscal conservatives criticizing boehner's budget pr proposal. then you had senate republicans watching their backs, rejecting a u.n. treaty that bans discrimination against those with disabilities around the world. senator jim demint said speaker boehner's $800 billion tax hike will destroy american jobs. yes, he said speaker boehner. one party proposes increase in an effort to counter them. the other party's leadership proposes, wait for it, $800 billion in tax increases and then former alaska governor sarah palin blasting boehner's decision to remove some conservatives from
for the power transfer in a most recent and main proposal last week on the fiscal cliff. >>> now no john mcafee. the millionaire software guru wanted in questioning in the neighbor's murder in belize. maybe you heard mcafee. got arrested in guatemala overnight. shouldn't come as much of a surprise here. the whole time supposedly on the run, he was handing out tv interviews like candy. but listen to this. now the mcafee is in jail, he is blogging from behind bars. the story just keeps getting more interesting, shall we say? more on the blogging here in a moment. but first, i have to play you this video. this is the video of his arrest. surprise-surprise. he was with a camera crew from vice.com when guatemalan police took him in. the charge, entering that country illegally. take a look here. exclusive video of vice.com. >> they're trying to arrest me. guatemalan jails have beds. >> john, where are you going? >> to jail. >> when will you be out? >> and off he goes. to think, just yesterday, mcafee was telling us he was seeking asylum in guatemala. been on the run since 10th of november for tha
to handle the fiscal cliff? 48% believe president obama and republicans will reach an agreement but 43% say they won't. meantime, president obama is giving a stern warning to republicans who may be trying to use the debt ceiling as leverage. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default once again as part of a budget negotiation, which by the way we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. >> we should say that the president and house speaker john boehner did speak by phone yesterday. that was the first time in a week. no one is saying what the conversation was about. shortly after that call treasury secretary tim geithner went on cnbc and said the white house is ready to go off the cliff. >> if republicans do not agree to that, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff in. >> absolutely. there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. it's only 2%. >> i want to bring in "usa today" b
to raise the debt limit whenever he wants by as much as he wants, he showed what he's really after is assuming unprecedented power to spend taxpayer dollars without any limit at all. >> even as the fiscal cliff negotiations drag on in washington, wall street seems to be basically unphased. the dow jones has slipped only about 200 points since the election. why isn't wall street more on edge itself? william cohen is the author of "money and power, hold goldman sachs came to rule the world." the labor department came out with the applications for unemployment aid saying it fell sharply for the last week and stocks basically opened flat this morning as we've seen. some of that has to do more with europe than it does with washington. but what is your reasoning for why wall street hasn't displayed more of an impact from this fiscal cliff nonsense? >> thomas, what wall street hates most of all is uncertainty and it's counterintuitive, there's actually plenty of certainty now. what's going to be certain is taxes are going up. either we go off the cliff or the curb and then taxes rise for
of fiscal cliff. can you see here the current probability, 28.5% we'll have a recession in the next 12 months. we had a low in march of almost 20%. that compares with a high. remember the debt ceiling debate of 36%. that chance going up. i want to show you in detail what dan greenhouse wrote in with his response in the survey. if the cliff is triggered and the cuts/tax increases remain in place for several weeks or worse, several months, it's hard to construct a scenario where the u.s. economy is not in recession. this is what's interesting here. recovering from that recession is not as simple as fixing the cliff's issues. the u.s. economy is not a light switch. you don't turn it back on. so the question, will we go over the cliff? on the first, looks like no, we won't go over. we'll avoid it. 41% say, yes, we'll go over, 46% say we won't. look at this, 13% don't know. we talk about uncertainty in the economy. i would add 41% who say we're going over with the 13% who say we don't know. that's 54% right there. next chart i want to show you, upside if we don't go over the cliff. the u.s.
is pushing ahead with the fiscal cliff pr campaign. he is meeting with a middle class family in northern virginia, and the white house says the president is going to talk about his efforts to extend tax cuts for the middle class as part of this debt deal. well, some economists are predicting that the country will go into another recession if this debt deal is not reached. any deal that the lawmakers and white house come up with is also going to have a major impact, so joining us to talk a little bit about it, peter morrissey. he is a business professor at the university of maryland, and our own chief business xhnt ali velshi. you wrote something, an article here, predicting that these tax hikes, the spending cuts likely in the debt deal, could push unemployment, you believe, from 7.9% all the way to 10%. how so? >> well, simply it will cut spending in the economy. the wealthy will have less money to spend, but the government will likely be spending a lot less money as well because the republicans are going to want spending cuts. you combine, say, about $250 billion in spending and tax cu
, congressional republicans are crafting a doomsday scenario for the fiscal cliff. it would allow a vote on extending only the bush middle class tax cuts and nothing elseings, effectively slamming the ball into the president's court for a new year's showdown on the debt ceiling. no compromise on extending unemployment or altering the tax code for those loopholes or raising fed reral revenues. politicians are allowed to thrive off of our democratic life blood. what is missing in light of this january 1st manufactured deadline? any talk of the very real physical foibles in our country. we have chosen to ignore the ways policies have created a governor for and by the entity. when republicans or democrats asked for top earners to pay their fair share, both sides are still ignoring it sources of the fiscal crisis. when so many americans do not make a living wage, the economy cannot recover nor can our budgets be balanced. so many more of us are being forced to rely on a fiscal floor that only our federal government is now capable of providing, running up our federal debt and demanding increas
,000. if republicans do not agree, is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> absolutely. >> there's no agreement that doesn't involve the rates going up on the top wealthy 2%. >> republicans clinging to what little leverage they have to maximize cuts zeroed in on the debt ceiling hoping for a repeat of the 2011 showdown where house republicans were able to extract $2 trillion in cuts. $1 trillion cut from domestic programs in ten years and $1.2 trillion in cuts through a sequester. wednesday, president obama seemed to set another red line, a business round table who warned against the repeat of last year's debacle. >> i want to send a clear message. we are not going to play the game next year. if congress suggests they are going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes and take us to the brink of default, once again, as part of a budget negotiation, which by the way, we have never done in our history until we did it last year, i will not play that game. because we have to break that habit before it starts. >> so, "the washington post" made a point friday saying you have two track
. the question for you this morning, are you prepared if the nation goes off the fiscal cliff? it's the ultimate game of chicken. who will blink first on the fiscal cliff? not the obama administration as timothy geithner told cnbc, bring it on. >> is the administration prepared to go over the fiscal cliff? >> absolutely. again, there's no prospect to an agreement that doesn't involve those rates going up on the top 2% of the wealthiest. >> taxpayers might think that's easy for geithner to say. what about all those middle class families whose tax will go up more than $2,000 if, as geithner suggests, we take a dive off that cliff? even though president obama and john boehner chatted on the phone, there's still no deal. republicans are not amused. >> incredibly, many top democrats, including the president, seem perfectly happy. perfectly happy to go off the cliff. that's why the president has been more interested in campaign rallies than actually negotiating a deal. >> many americans don't have much hope the two side also come up with a deal. they've moved on already to plan b. the retired teacher
have no idea how we're going to pay for them. we have a fiscal cliff which we describe now that everybody's talking about at the end of this year, that's not the cliff. the cliff is the unsustainable debt we have. and unless, in my estimation, a lot of economists, you're not going to put us on a path to prosperity unless you take about $9 trillion out over the next ten years. and we're barely talking $4 trillion. >> yeah, nobody's talking $9 trillion. >> yeah. and $9 trillion is the only thing that actually solves this. so we're sitting here as a country, we have made commitments that have to be rearranged and made more efficient. we have a tax structure that is subpar to what we need for our economy in terms of our historical averages. and nobody's talking long run. everybody's talking december 31st. >> i know. you see john boehner's proposal, he was very critical of the president's proposaproposal, it nonstarter, but boehner comes out talking cutting $2.2 trillion. you talk about $9 trillion needed over the next ten years. look at the past four years. we've almost added $
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